So, is he a vigilante? Yes, he takes the law into his own hands. Then that edge doesn’t matter, then the costume doesn’t matter, and then you’re no longer talking about Batman. He’d kill from a distance, from a place of security. It’s what makes the fight even.īut if Batman’s willing to kill, he’s too smart and too well-trained to put himself in greater danger.
You can suspend your disbelief long enough to believe that a man would dress up like demon bat because the shock of it gives him the edge in his war on enemies who almost always have him outnumbered and outgunned. That’s how Batman would operate if he were a killer, but he’s not. The reason for that is he doesn’t plan on letting any of them live. The Punisher doesn’t wear a mask because he doesn’t care if the criminals see his face or not. Again, he’s too clinical he would wear an armored ninja suit and shoot bad guys with a sniper rifle. If Batman didn’t care about that–if he judged them undeserving of life, he wouldn’t dress up as Batman. That presupposes that he’s allowing the criminals to live so they can repent and change. Batman wants to terrify the underworld into changing its wicked ways. Why does Batman wear the cape and cowl and employ the whole shadowy creature of the night motif? It’s not functional it’s tactical. If Batman were a killer, it would make no sense for him to be Batman. Not because killing is wrong, but because it breaks the illusion of the character. Batman is not out for revenge he’s a protector.Īs for the killing, Batman should never do it. The line “I am vengeance” sounds great coming out of Kevin Conroy’s mouth, but it’s inaccurate. He prowls the streets to prevent anyone else from suffering the way he did. But Batman doesn’t prowl the streets of Gotham looking for their killer. Joel Schumacher argued that Bruce Wayne would eventually come to terms with their deaths, and that’s how you get the Batman in BATMAN FOREVER and BATMAN AND ROBIN. That is not to say he gets over the murder of his parents. I’ll tackle the latter first.īatman is far too cerebral and clinical to be acting emotional. Neither of those ideas *should* apply to Batman. He (or she) is acting emotionally in response to a great wrong. The other idea is that the vigilante’s quest is a protracted crime of passion. One is that he kills, and that both vigilante and audience arrive at an emotional catharsis when he brings symbolic retribution on the enemy. There are two conceits of the vigilante figure you guys talked about.
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Like, y’know, the movie does several times. I realize the word “vigilante” is technically appropriate when describing Batman, but I think any story that treats him more like a punishing avenger rather than an “unorthodox crimefighter” runs the risk of missing the whole point of the character. The world is broken and the law is helpless, so he’ll bring justice–or more frequently, *vengeance*–upon the wicked. SUPERMAN: Zack Snyder treats Batman as a vigilante in the revenge movie sense of the word. (Sidebar: Why can’t Neil deGrasse Tyson accept that STAR WARS is a fantasy and not beholden to actual scientific principles?)Īnyway, the (latest) reason why I hate BATMAN V. Maybe I can’t accept that on the film’s terms and that’s why I don’t care for the movies…? I’m really not sure. If we accept the premise that the system is broken and some people can’t be forgiven in the movie’s universe, we can enjoy the ride with the schadenfreude to which Mike alluded. But the conceit of the revenge/vigilante movie is those ideals simply do not exist. We reject the idea that no one is beyond repentance and redemption. We reject the idea that the system can’t work fairly for everyone. I consider myself a liberal, but having admittedly not seen many of these movies, I can only speculate on this matter, but it seems to me the genre functions as an escapist fantasy for people who believe in moral absolutes. You raised the question why do liberals get such joy out of these films.
I never cared about Marvel’s Punisher as a solo act, only as a foil to characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil. I’ve only seen one DIRTY HARRY movie, and I don’t think it was the first one. I’ve never seen any of the TAKEN movies or JOHN WICK. I’ve never seen any of the DEATH WISH movies. I also realized that I don’t, in fact, like the vigilante/revenge genre in film, or perhaps more specifically, I have no interest in it. SUPERMAN all the more for the way it depicts Batman, and for how Zack Snyder casually defends the fact that Batman kills people in the movie. In thinking about your discussion on this episode, I realized that I have BATMAN V.
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